Hello everyone

[timothyogoodwin]

My names Tim and I write fiction for children and fantasy for YA. I appreciate the opportunity to be here and I am hoping to get to know others with my same interests as well as learn a few things along the way. Once again I thank you for having me.

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[sapphire]

Hello and welcome!
What kind of fantasy do you write? (I'm also a fantasy writer - I tend to write dark high fantasy at novel length, and more whimsy short stories, though there is some crossover.)

[Zoom]

Neato! How do you do?

I always thought it was incredibly hard to write stories for kids. Balancing it so it's accessible but not patronizing.

[timothyogoodwin]

Mar 11, 2015 20:05:04 GMT -6 sapphire said:

Hello and welcome!
What kind of fantasy do you write? (I'm also a fantasy writer - I tend to write dark high fantasy at novel length, and more whimsy short stories, though there is some crossover

Greetings Sapphire and...
...thanks for the interest and reply. I write fantasy on the order of Barron and Tolkien. I create my world with detailed maps and legends and then fill it with beings, new languages and numbering systems and so forth. Once I have illustrated a few characters and areas of interest such as a few of the towns and villages then my original story ideas begin to really come alive. (Story ideas are always written down in outline form before I ever begin the world creation process.) I have been working on this latest story since 2008 and still have some way to go. Well thanks, I hope to hear more about your ideas on writing and illustrating as well. For instance are you published or have something in the works? I'd be very happy to hear about your works. Until later keep up the good work.
Tim

[timothyogoodwin]

Mar 12, 2015 1:28:21 GMT -6 Zoom said:

Neato! How do you do?

I always thought it was incredibly hard to write stories for kids. Balancing it so it's accessible but not patronizing.

Hello Zoom,

Thanks for writing. As for writing kids stories and difficulty it's not so bad. Just look at them like little grown ups because they are very perceptive and smarter than one knows. I always just write like I would talk to a child. You wouldn't baby talk a 5 year old so don't write that way. If they don't understand what's going on in the story or the meaning of a particular word believe me-they'll ask. As to the niche it just finds its own place. Either your publisher will know or you can be placed in a very wide range when self publishing. Most important is to make lots of pictures when doing kids stories. The more the better.

So tell me what you're up to. I'd be curious to know. Well until later I thank you once more for your reply and interest and look forward to hearing back.

Tim

PS: Forgot the most important part. Always use a moral or other revealing value for an ending. It sets well with the parents. After all they buy the book. But be careful with morals. Never over step your boundaries. Something like revealing the monster under the bed as a real nice monster is a good one.

[sapphire]

I'm with you on creating detailed worlds, Tim - though in my case, the plot tends to come first and I build the world around it. I usually build a basic world outline, with general geography, politics, magic system rules, characters, etc., and then fill it in as I write and discover what else is needed. I never write anything without outlining it anymore. I used to, but one of my professors in college suggested I try outlining and I have never looked back. Just works better for me. I'm not much of an illustrator. I usually sketch out a rough map of the world and of any more complex locations within the world so I have a reference as I'm writing, but no more than that.

As for current works, I'm working on the third draft of the first book in my trilogy and outlining the second book. My plan is to have the whole trilogy outlined, then complete the first book and start searching for an agent. I also have several short stories that I'm beginning to look for venues for - deciding which magazines to submit to and such.

I've always found writing for children to be difficult, too. I honestly haven't spent much time around kids of any age, aside from relatives whom I see rarely, so I don't have the experience communicating with them. Though now that I've got a niece and nephew, I do spend more time with them.
I do think that morals depend on what age you're writing for. With really little kids, I agree with you - revealing that the monster is a nice one would be a good way to teach kids not to judge by appearance. But as kids get older, the moral needs to be much more subtle, or it feels condescending. It's a balancing act - but then, so is all writing.

[Zoom]

My friend used to do a lot of babysitting and she said that one time, a kid told her that he loved her because "you TALK to me". And it's true. I don't have a lot of experience with kids but if someone talked to me the way I try to talk to them I'd look at them funny. "Is that your tutu? What's your doggie's name?" bullshit

Ahhh so don't write a story about the Big Bad Reds coming to steal away our freedom

I'm a bit too flaky to settle on one specific thing unfortunately! In the last week I've started and half-finished a braided rug, come up with an idea for a city-wide scavenger hunt involving encryption, written an "environmental balance" game (AI needs serious tweaking), made a pretend space exploration website (unfinished), made a series of prints about how hilariously immoral big business can be, tried to convey a feeling using only found footage and music sampling, and committed myself to make a series of postcards by June 1st. You'll notice writing didn't play any part. However my next project will be based off this idea: "creepy maybe-it's-possessed doll. the protagonists use it as a sex toy for the horrifying thrill. what happens" because I think it's hilarious.

I'm just going to assume you have some expertise in children's books; have there been many new ones in the vein of, for example, Peter Rabbit, or the Wind in the Willows, or like, the Phantom Toolbooth? The Jungle Book? Something the child might not be ready to read themselves, but that would make a good bedtime story for like a 6 or 7 year old? I grew up on Robert Munsch and the Berenstein Bears and while I think they were pretty cool they don't hold the same appeal that the Beatrice Potter books did.

[timothyogoodwin]

Hey Sapphire,
How's it? I have tried writing while and during world creation as well as world creation after writing and I have such a hard time with that. It's kind of like if I have a complete world with every person and creature available to me it somehow makes it easier for me. Don't know why, just does. But your way is more than not the proper way. I guess what I am saying is that each to his or hers own. If it works don't fix it. Ah yes and about those kids. Well, writing directly for kids is hard stuff but storytelling is easy. That's how I go at a piece of kids work-as if I'm telling a story. Kids are very intuitive about things and your right it is a very fine line from let's say 5 or 6 to 10 or 12 and then into teens and then even further into young adult and then past that.

I'd love to check out some of your work. Is it posted within anywhere? Let me know. Well, later days.
Tim

[timothyogoodwin]

Hey Sapphire,
How's it? I have tried writing while and during world creation as well as world creation after writing and I have such a hard time with that. It's kind of like if I have a complete world with every person and creature available to me it somehow makes it easier for me. Don't know why, just does. But your way is more than not the proper way. I guess what I am saying is that each to his or hers own. If it works don't fix it. Ah yes and about those kids. Well, writing directly for kids is hard stuff but storytelling is easy. That's how I go at a piece of kids work-as if I'm telling a story. Kids are very intuitive about things and your right it is a very fine line from let's say 5 or 6 to 10 or 12 and then into teens and then even further into young adult and then past that.

I'd love to check out some of your work. Is it posted within anywhere? Let me know. Well, later days.
Tim
Going to lounge.

[timothyogoodwin]

Mar 12, 2015 23:24:16 GMT -6 Zoom said:

My friend used to do a lot of babysitting and she said that one time, a kid told her that he loved her because "you TALK to me". And it's true. I don't have a lot of experience with kids but if someone talked to me the way I try to talk to them I'd look at them funny. "Is that your tutu? What's your doggie's name?" bullshit

Ahhh so don't write a story about the Big Bad Reds coming to steal away our freedom

I'm a bit too flaky to settle on one specific thing unfortunately! In the last week I've started and half-finished a braided rug, come up with an idea for a city-wide scavenger hunt involving encryption, written an "environmental balance" game (AI needs serious tweaking), made a pretend space exploration website (unfinished), made a series of prints about how hilariously immoral big business can be, tried to convey a feeling using only found footage and music sampling, and committed myself to make a series of postcards by June 1st. You'll notice writing didn't play any part. However my next project will be based off this idea: "creepy maybe-it's-possessed doll. the protagonists use it as a sex toy for the horrifying thrill. what happens" because I think it's hilarious.

I'm just going to assume you have some expertise in children's books; have there been many new ones in the vein of, for example, Peter Rabbit, or the Wind in the Willows, or like, the Phantom Toolbooth? The Jungle Book? Something the child might not be ready to read themselves, but that would make a good bedtime story for like a 6 or 7 year old? I grew up on Robert Munsch and the Berenstein Bears and while I think they were pretty cool they don't hold the same appeal that the Beatrice Potter books did.

[timothyogoodwin]

Hey Zoom,
How's it? I'm a bit off the deep end sometimes myself. So don't feel like the lone stranger. As to your question maybe check out The Velveteen Rabbit or maybe the Paddington and Curious George stories. I also like anything Arthurian or Robin Hoodish for kids. As far as Potter goes, she is one of the greats with art and story telling ability. You did mean Beatrice and not Beatrix right? Doesn't matter, they are both wonderful. Well until later. It appears my word processor is calling me. A very pesky and nerve racking sort that WP. He drives me sometimes like a train. Smile.
Tim

[sapphire]

Oh, absolutely - everyone has their own writing style and process. Mine happens to be a mix between planning and making it up as I go. I have to have the plot completely outlined before I start writing or I get stuck halfway through and don't get anywhere for days (or weeks). But I find that coming up with mythology and such while I write allows me to drop things in where I need them, rather than feeling like I have to include things because I came up with them. Does that make sense?

I took most of my writings down from this site as I'm preparing them for publication and many publishers don't like the works being posted elsewhere. You can find a bunch of my older stuff in the forum's Recycle Bin, though. Pretty sure I have works posted under Novels, Short Stories, Poems, and Song Writing. Just look for my name in the "Created By" column.

[A Mask Among Many]

Welcome, Tim.

I concur with Saph in that I mix planning and world building. I kind of get a simple idea, then expound it into a full world. That world then becomes a work in progress that I enjoy placing my characters in to see what they'll do. If they do something unexpected while I'm writing them, then the world changes to fit the new action. Sometimes one has to undergo a drastic change or addition to accommodate the new material in the other.

I feel like writing for kids is harder for adults because we need to place ourselves into the mindset of children. Things are simpler, but not too simple, because then it becomes condescending. A lot of children's books today talk down to kids in a way that they didn't used to. It annoyed me to see books like that when my little sisters were first learning to read.

Anyway, that's just my two cents.