Religion

[Spectre]

Maybe this isn't the most popular position; but isn't it worth it to debate? Isn't it a fairly productive use of time to try to figure this stuff out? We're dealing with eternity and gods, after all.

[sapphire]

I have no problem with friendly discussion. It's just when people decide that theirs is the only view worth having that bothers me.

[Raphael]

Socrates agreed with that. Slander ruins all arguments.

[Jade]

Feb 22, 2013 21:05:43 GMT -6 sapphire said:

I have no problem with friendly discussion. It's just when people decide that theirs is the only view worth having that bothers me.

Ah, yes. I know a person like that in real life. He's the most annoying person you'll ever meet! He believes the only way towards this world being a utopia is by getting rid of God, but this world is the farthest it's ever been from God and, at least to me, it looks the farthest away from being a utopia.

He was annoying. If you debated a point all he heard from you was 'Blah, blah, blah' then he jumped in to continue his argument that had no foundation whatsoever, just his own personal feelings and opinions. He never listened--ever. Always argued with the teachers, too.

[Jade]

Feb 22, 2013 21:28:04 GMT -6 Raphael said:

Socrates agreed with that. Slander ruins all arguments.

My dad always told me, when you debate, never ever name call because then you've lost. Don't stoop to anyone's level. Be the mature, intelligent one in a debate so that, even if they refuse to acknowledge you won, you know you did and did an awesome job at it too. Ha ha.

[Raphael]

I'm the sort of person that will start fighting with the person in my head, and then try to keep it there. : P

[Zoom]

"There is no reason why i can't practice my religon publicly, which doesn't inherantly mean me forcing it on you. If you're offended by me making the sign of the cross and praying before i eat then look the other way."

Of course I can't speak for the original writer of the quote, but what I mean when I say it is pretty close to "don't shove it down my throat" and also relates to things like pro-lifers showing people walking to work grotesque images of dead babies. It's not that you shouldn't practice religion in public; it's that you shouldn't overstep certain societal bounds.


"Maybe this isn't the most popular position; but isn't it worth it to debate? Isn't it a fairly productive use of time to try to figure this stuff out? We're dealing with eternity and gods, after all. "

I would disagree, actually. Ultimately the debate will come down to a matter of belief and I don't think there's any way to change somebody's beliefs.
We could debate on the worthiness of debating belief, though!

[Zoom]

"My dad always told me, when you debate, never ever name call because then you've lost. Don't stoop to anyone's level. Be the mature, intelligent one in a debate so that, even if they refuse to acknowledge you won, you know you did and did an awesome job at it too."

My dad told me this too

[Raphael]

Same.

They must have all gone to the same Dad school!

[Zoom]

That explains the diploma from the Academy of Paternal Excellence that's hung up in the living room

He also told me, if someone rips you off, don't badmouth them, because then you'll be better than them.

[oracle]

Pro-life/ pro-choice strikes me as a whole other can of worms. As a Catholic I of course see it in part as a religious issue, but I am only argumentative on issues that I feel like can be defended without any religious belief whatsoever and abortion is one of those. I think the fact that the abortions are happening means that people should have a right to know what is really happening. The fact of the matter is it won't be covered by any media source and so if you are someone who is pro-life you have an issue that you see as incredibly important, but with everyone having the same mentality as you Zoom. "If I don't have to see it, it isn't my problem."

If you are someone who is pro-life then, to you, abortion is a practice that is literally killing millions. If you are pro-choice it isn't hurting anyone. However, I think to ignore the issue is a huge mistake. Think of how many of the world's problems have historically begun with "we don't want to hear about that in polite society". Personally I think the ignorance is bliss mentality is very common in our society. I also think it has never resulted in anything good. Religion or non.

[Zoom]

"If I don't have to see it, it isn't my problem."
It's not that I don't want to think about it, it's that I don't want to have to look at over-the-top displays. Shock tactics on my way to work. I'm aware of the issue, so I'd rather not have it forced down my throat.

"If you are someone who is pro-life then, to you, abortion is a practice that is literally killing millions. If you are pro-choice it isn't hurting anyone."
Pro-choice is hurting people, if you're pro-choice. If a woman is raped should she have to carry the baby of the monster? If a fetus is technically healthy but mentally brain-dead, should the parents have to pay for its life support until it finally croaks? If the condom breaks but the couple isn't ready for a baby, should they have to have one?
This is the biggest problem with debating things like this. We could go back and forth for years and never get anywhere.

[Raphael]

The entire population of England is the number of deaths. And when would it stop? If you can kill a baby in the womb, why not a 2 year old. 4 years? 8 years? There is no logical place to stop. The logical place to stop is whenever the person is no longer wanted, we kill it.

[Zoom]

"We could go back and forth for years and never get anywhere."
That is the last I have to say on the subject.

[Jade]

Feb 27, 2013 6:50:27 GMT -6 Zoom said:

"If I don't have to see it, it isn't my problem."
It's not that I don't want to think about it, it's that I don't want to have to look at over-the-top displays. Shock tactics on my way to work. I'm aware of the issue, so I'd rather not have it forced down my throat.

What Zoom means is like when people stand at intersections every Saturday, holding signs and screaming into cars about repentance and salvation. I'm very religious, but I feel people screaming to me about God while my sister and I are driving to the park is terribly poor taste. And no-offense to any Jehovah Witnesses, but please, stop knocking on my door. Leave your pamphlets in my mailbox. I'm cool with that.

It's not that we want to close or eyes and cup our ears, it's we want things presented in a tasteful way. No shouting or imposing.

Pro-choice is hurting people, if you're pro-choice. If a woman is raped should she have to carry the baby of the monster? If a fetus is technically healthy but mentally brain-dead, should the parents have to pay for its life support until it finally croaks? If the condom breaks but the couple isn't ready for a baby, should they have to have one?
This is the biggest problem with debating things like this. We could go back and forth for years and never get anywhere.

I'm pro-life because it's not the babies fault it was conceived. If it isn't wanted, put it up for adoption. Give it a chance, you never know, that child that was aborted could have saved millions by finding the cure for some terminal disease. The couple made the choice to have sex, if the girl gets pregnant that's the consequence. Even in rape, who's to say the child is or will be a monster? Again, not the baby's fault. It might take on a large percent of the mother's genetics making it a wonderful person. To me pro-choice is more selfishness than anything else, but now I think we're tipping the scale into a possible heated debate.